The 2024 BA compensation thread: Your guide to Regulation EC261 / UK261 - FlyerTalk Forums (2024)

flarmip

Join Date: May 2019

Location: FL390 or the iron way

Programs: BA GGL

Posts: 1,903

It's likely an attempt at reimbursing you the fare difference, which is all they believe they owe - of course in reality it's 75% of the fare they owe, which is much more. CR seems to have little concept of Mennens reimbursem*nt and it regularly seems to require CEDR/MCOL to get anywhere on that.

Worth noting that whilst you could claim Avios in Court (and that's certainly an accepted practice in CEDR), courts are generally reluctant to order "specific performance" (i.e. "you must do X") when money is an adequate alternative. In this case, Avios can of course be bought using money (though at a somewhat disadvantageous rate), so I'd suggest claiming for the Avios element based on the purchase rate for the relevant amount.

bernardh

Join Date: Jan 2008

Location: UK

Programs: BA Silver

Posts: 431

I am having another go at CR since they are actually talking to me since receiving my LBA - albeit not very coherently. I've explained their error and asked them to either calculate according to Mennens formula or to explain why UK261 does not apply.

I was going to go for the Avios at £0.0178 each in the civil court claim, but I have offered at this point to negotiate a settlement entirely in Avios.

Is going the legal route likely in this situation to elicit a more favourable outcome than CEDR? I've read of some odd/illogical outcomes with CEDR, but it's considerably more attractive from a paperwork point of view.

flarmip

Join Date: May 2019

Location: FL390 or the iron way

Programs: BA GGL

Posts: 1,903

That sounds like a sensible course of action on both counts.

It's more likely that the law will be properly applied by a judge than by the CEDR assessors; as you say, we have seen some bizarre CEDR decisions. However, going to court isn't risk-free in the way that going to CEDR is, and one of the steps you are encouraged to take before going to court is to try to resolve the matter through alternative means (such as alternative dispute resolution mechanisms like CEDR).

Failing to do so won't have any effect on the outcome of your claim, but it may affect your ability to recover your costs if you win. I'd also add that this sounds like a case that is on the simpler end of the spectrum, with fewer disputes about facts, law etc. so it may be suited to CEDR.

corporate-wage-slave

Join Date: Feb 2010

Programs: BA Lifetime Gold; Flying Blue Life Platinum; LH Sen.; Hilton Diamond; Kemal Kebabs Prized Customer

Posts: 64,368

Personally I would go via the CEDR route on this, since you will then get a clear statement of judgement. If this is wrong in law then MCOL will be happy to get it corrected. MCOL could be quite slow, it may take a year to resolve if BA challenges your application. CEDR is somewhat faster and does give occasional updates when nothing is happening. MCOL has multiple stages, and one - early on is for BA to file a defence, which has to be done (in round terms) within 6 weeks of you starting the process. BA is mindful of that deadline, so they may just pay you off before that deadline. If they want it to go to a hearing then you will get the text of their defence within that timeframe. So if you are 101% sure of your case and a BA paralegal also agrees, then it can be faster.

The reversal of the Avios transaction is standard, there are circ*mstances where this is the correct course of action, if it was a voluntary change, or a rerouting that took you out of EC261.

bernardh

Join Date: Jan 2008

Location: UK

Programs: BA Silver

Posts: 431

Thank you both. I'll give it another week, then go to CEDR if not resolved (and follow this with MCOL if still necessary).

I think it's pretty open and shut that a cancellation leading to a reroute and downgrade for part of the reroute it covered by the Reg.

bernardh

Join Date: Jan 2008

Location: UK

Programs: BA Silver

Posts: 431

the-doctor

Join Date: Sep 2008

Programs: BAEC Gold

Posts: 127

Hi, advice appreciated on the following please....original flights were:

03 June
BA193 LHR-DFW arr 17.10
AA1675 DFW-PHX dep 19.30

BA193 Landed 3 hours 14 min late, so while I was in the air AA rebooked me onto AA1974 departing 12.31pm on the 4th.

Although part of me was tempted to accept the new itin and claim the full £520 delay compensation (if I've understood the rules correctly), it really would've messed up my work day.

Through a combination of advice on this forum (as always), global entry and sheer determination, I managed to race through DFW and get rebooked onto AA1744 the same evening, which landed at 23.12, albeit in Y instead of J.

I've since been credited with 20TPs for this leg. Presumably I can apply to BA for a downgrade compensation...though the amount might be so small it might not be worth it? Can I apply for downgrade compensation AND ORC?

Thanks

corporate-wage-slave

Join Date: Feb 2010

Programs: BA Lifetime Gold; Flying Blue Life Platinum; LH Sen.; Hilton Diamond; Kemal Kebabs Prized Customer

Posts: 64,368

ORC has nothing to do with EC261, a completely independent process, so you can do this anyway.

Downgrade compensation under Mennens for DFW - PHX is indeed likely to be farily modest, it may be better telling BA you won't claim that but instead would like some customer relations Avios. It is however 15% of the mileage (7.5% if it's a return ticket) so it depends a bit on the cost of your ticket. Plus £260 for the delay compensation.

flarmip

Join Date: May 2019

Location: FL390 or the iron way

Programs: BA GGL

Posts: 1,903

You are entitled to both and should indeed claim for both, though they are separate processes. Unfortunately no entitlement to delay compensation as you arrived less than 3 hours late.

corporate-wage-slave

Join Date: Feb 2010

Programs: BA Lifetime Gold; Flying Blue Life Platinum; LH Sen.; Hilton Diamond; Kemal Kebabs Prized Customer

Posts: 64,368

I think it's a bit over 3 hours.

flarmip

Join Date: May 2019

Location: FL390 or the iron way

Programs: BA GGL

Posts: 1,903

The OP was booked on AA1675, which was scheduled to arrive at 20:54. They were ultimately able to rebook onto AA1744 which arrived (slightly late) at 23:18. So their delay in arriving at their final destination was 2h24m, unfortunately slightly below the 3 hour threshold.

the-doctor

Join Date: Sep 2008

Programs: BAEC Gold

Posts: 127

Originally booked on AA1675 scheduled to arrive 20.54. Eventually landed on AA1744 at 23.12. I don't recall when doors opened, but it wasn't later that 23.54. So I'm not expecting delay compensation.

But my best bet is to call BA to claim ORC (I'm still waiting for my last downgrade claim over 3 weeks ago ), and email CS to request avios for the downgrade in lieu of an UK261, which they'll probably go for as it's less hassle right? It was only £2k for AMS-LHR-DFW-PHX, YYZ-JFK-LHR all in J, so the cash refund will be tiny.

onlysuites

Join Date: Sep 2003

Programs: BA Silver, EY Gold, HH Diamond, IHG Plat

Posts: 12,217

Thank you for your help. I am glad to say BA settled when I submitted the CEDR.

jliehr

Join Date: Jan 2014

Posts: 155

Thank you

So to be clear, we traveled a day later on Delta/AF in Economy+ then Premium Economy. So I should request downgrade compensation from AA first?

We also have had frustration coming back.Our flight from CDG-DFW was delayed first by weather, then by malfunctioning AC, causing us to miss our connection in DFW. 2 of 3 downgraded and arriving at least 2.5 hours late now. Do I file something EU 261 for the delay? AA 49 was the flight.

corporate-wage-slave

Join Date: Feb 2010

Programs: BA Lifetime Gold; Flying Blue Life Platinum; LH Sen.; Hilton Diamond; Kemal Kebabs Prized Customer

Posts: 64,368

For the CDG-DFW sector, that would need to be at least 3 hours late, and the weather delay component isn't to be included, so I don't see that as working for the delay side. If the downgrade was DFW to Somewhere then that is under Mennens but that's pro-rata to distance and unlikely to be a big sum of money. The wiki will tell you how to calculate this.

For the switch to Delta: having re-read the case, I think I mis-advised you on this. since as I now read it, it started as BA issued, and presumably BA codeshared, but you then permitted a schedule change - presumably well before the weather event - to AA, then AA had the weather event and it ended up on Delta. So by moving it to AA and being reticketed with AA means that this trip was no longer on a European airline, and thus not in scope for EC261 in the direction USA to Europe. Had you remained ticketed with BA - or rebooked on to say Air France - then it would have been different. BA still has your funds from the ticket, so they should give a refund but not based on Mennens, but presumably it will just be difference only, not for Mennens. So I think it's with BA and you may need to remind them that they have the ticketing funding.